Monday, January 24, 2011

POSSIBLE UNDERGROUND ASSAULT RIFLE; THE VG 1-5

http://www.awrm.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=000641

The Volkssturmgewehr 1-5 is a 7.92 mm caliber semi-automatic rifle developed by Nazi Germany during World War II. It was also known as the VG 1-5, Volkssturm-Gewehr 1-5, Versuchs-Gerät 1-5 and "Gustloff", and was intended as a cheaply mass-produced weapon for the Volkssturm militia.
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The weapon employed the same 7.92x33mm Kurz intermediate cartridge as the earlier StG 44 assault rifle and also used the same detachable 30-round box magazine.

The Volkssturmgewehr 1-5 uses a gas-delayed blowback action based on the Barnitzke system, whereby gas bled from the barrel near the chamber creates resistance to the rearward impulse of the operating parts, which ceases when the projectile leaves the muzzle, allowing the operating parts to be forced rearward by the residual pressure of the cartridge case. This principle has been used most successfully in the Heckler & Koch P7 pistol.

The VG 1-5 is constructed rather like many automatic pistols, it has a casing and spring around the barrel; the whole casing recoils backward. The breech block, with firing pin and extractor, is pinned to the back end of the barrel casing. The rear end of the gun does not recoil and has the hammer, sear and trigger built into it. Gas coming from four vents, near the end of the barrel, holds the bolt closed till the gas pressure drops to a safe level. Some selective fire VG 1-5s were made.
Security Arms blurb about vg 1-5

 - http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?p=402800


Quote:
Originally Posted by BARQS19 View Post
Don't forget that weird looking gun they had, what was it called? A MP3008 or something?? Looked just like a Sten. I also saw another one that was basically made out of stamped parts and took a mp 44 mag. I guess all that oddball stuff ended up on the Eastern Front.
It is a Volksturm Gewehr

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The Volkssturmgewehr 1-5 is a 7.92 x 33 mm (7.92 mm Kurz) caliber semi-automatic rifle developed by Nazi Germany during World War II. Also known as the VG 1-5, Volkssturm-Gewehr 1-5, Versuchs-Gerat 1-5 and "Gustloff." It was intended to be used by the Volkssturm militia.
Volkssturmgewehr 1-5 used a gas-delayed blowback action based on the Barnitzke system, whereby gas bled from the barrel near the chamber creates resistance to the rearward impulse of the operating parts, which ceases when the projectile leaves the muzzle, allowing the operating parts to be forced rearward by the residual pressure of the cartridge case. This principle has been used most successfully in the Heckler & Koch PSP or P7 pistol.
The VG 1-5 is constructed rather like many automatic pistols, it has a casing and spring around the barrel and the whole casing recoils backward. The breach block, with firing pin and extractor, is pinned to the back end of the barrel casing. The rear end of the gun does not recoil and has the hammer, sear and trigger built into it. Gas coming from four vents, near the end of the of the barrel hold the bolt closed till the gas pressure drops to a safe level. The VG 1-5 used the same 30 shot 7.92 x 33 mm (7.92 mm Kurz) caliber magazine as the Sturmgewehr 44. Some selective-fire VG 1-5 were made.

The gas is tapped off so far down the bore near the muzzle that its delaying action is negligible; the gas retarding serves more as a bolt buffer than as a delaying mechanism. It relies more on the substantial mass of its recoiling parts to hold the breach shut and a fluted chamber to prevent tearing off the case rims. The gun is almost a pure blowback, and has a truly nasty recoil.

The HK7, in contrast, taps off the gas just in front of the chamber, and very effectively retards the slide's opening.

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I saw a VG-5 at a show in Columbia,MO a few weeks ago. The guy was asking $15,000.00 for it. He said it was legal with the short bbl., I think it was around 14 in.. Does anybody know for sure. Bill
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#10
Old 12-20-2008, 06:09 PM
Wapruf2 Wapruf2 is offline
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They were classed as NFA short-barrelled rifles for years but were removed from the NFA list and classed as C&Rs some years ago.
Take care when buying one. Back when they were NFA weapons some folks rebarreled them to make them legal; this accounts for the longer barreled jobs one sees in some older reference books. Some of these have had their barrels shortened again. Look for a German pressure proof on the barrel.
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#11
Old 12-20-2008, 06:09 PM
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Bill, They are legal and listed on the ATF's curio and relics list section III.

Desperate Measures
You have to get W. Darrin Weaver's Desperate Measures:The Last Ditch Weapons Of The Nazi Volkssturm by Collector Grade Publications. There is a complete section on the VK98 with pictures on pages 207-226 in great detail.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=101400
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The Volkssturmgewehr 1-5 is a 7.92 x 33 mm (7.92 mm Kurz) caliber semi-automatic rifle developed by Nazi Germany during World War II. Also known as the VG 1-5, Volkssturm-Gewehr 1-5, Versuchs-Gerat 1-5 and "Gustloff." It was intended to be used by the Volkssturm militia.
Volkssturmgewehr 1-5 used a gas-delayed blowback action based on the Barnitzke system, whereby gas bled from the barrel near the chamber creates resistance to the rearward impulse of the operating parts, which ceases when the projectile leaves the muzzle, allowing the operating parts to be forced rearward by the residual pressure of the cartridge case. This principle has been used most successfully in the Heckler & Koch PSP or P7 pistol.
The VG 1-5 is constructed rather like many automatic pistols, it has a casing and spring around the barrel and the whole casing recoils backward. The breach block, with firing pin and extractor, is pinned to the back end of the barrel casing. The rear end of the gun does not recoil and has the hammer, sear and trigger built into it. Gas coming from four vents, near the end of the of the barrel hold the bolt closed till the gas pressure drops to a safe level. The VG 1-5 used the same 30 shot 7.92 x 33 mm (7.92 mm Kurz) caliber magazine as the Sturmgewehr 44. Some selective-fire VG 1-5 were made.

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Brief YouTube presentation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSCdIqcvjus

I got a e-mail directing me to the works of PA Luty and Gerard Metral-both produced submachine guns. Luty used as many commonly available components as possible, while Metral's design is much more refined but requires a lot more machine tooling.

The reason I am bringing up the VG 1-5 is that its construction is about as simple as a submachine gun but it can safely fire intermediate powered rifle cartridges.

So, I hit up strumgewher.com asking them for any leads and I got a response for a firm in Germany actually reproducing semi-automatic copies of the stg-44 and fg-42 rifles. Amazing! I asked them about blueprints, diagrams, etc. for the VG 1-5 and I was quoted a sales price of 500,000 Euros....

I'll find another way. Perhaps if I study the brief description of its operation and photos I can figure out the parts and their relation to each other. Yes, this is turning into a project.

A couple things; it won't be an exact reproduction, it will probably be in 5.56, use M16 magazines(which means it could be in 6.5 Grendel, a cartridge I'm a secret admirer of), or another variant in 7.62x39 using AK magazines. I would stretch the barrel to 16 inches in .223, use off the shelf detaching flattop AR sights.

Another issue is moderating the recoil impulse; from what I've read the VG 1-5 had a nasty recoil, which tells me there will be more than one prototype and juggling the relationship of the components of the design needed to smooth and attenuate the recoil.

I still think this project is still viable. A sten level of simplicity and ease of construction in an assault rifle is worth exploring.


rest at the link:
http://www.awrm.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=000641

1 comment:

Eric said...

I was also thinking of reproducing the VG,probley in a 9mm or 45acp,with upgrades in stocks and such.